Christianity and Ancient Greek philosophy - Wikipedia IV. We can turn our worries and fears into a source of motivation that helps us to become better people in this world. other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection. Death is an interruption of love which is regarded as the greatest pleasure and the thought of losing it either by dying ourselves or through the death of others is a horrendous pain. How to Balance Hard Work and Pleasure for Happiness - The Atlantic (social) scientist myself, I despair at climate change denial, and the literal interpretation of Genesis. You will inevitably be crushed when that person leaves or falls out of your life. Epicureanism: the ancient philosophy that won't go away On a metaphysical level, Epicureanism and Christianity fundamentally contravene each other. Epicurean pleasure - Changing minds Updates? molar enthalpy of combustion of methanol. Nevertheless, Christianity is no less concerned with this present lifes quality. The stoics stress upon us to remember that we are living a life of our own design and that we should be happy with this fact. In the New Testament book of Revelation, the New Jerusalem is described as a place where God will wipe away every tear from his peoples eyes and there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying and there shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away (21:4; NKJV). We should remember that those things are not part of the inner self and do not define us as human beings. Every day we can choose to be an Epicurean or a Stoic, taking what we find useful from both philosophies. As a philosophical school, one of the main goals of Stoicism was to attain freedom from passion and fear. In ancient polemics, as often since, the term was employed with an even more generic (and clearly erroneous) meaning as the equivalent of hedonism, the doctrine that pleasure or happiness is the chief good. In ethics, the basic concepts are the identification of good with pleasure and of the supreme good and ultimate end with the absence of pain from the body and the soula limit beyond which pleasure does not grow but changes; the reduction of every human relation to the principle of utility, which finds its highest expression in friendship, in which it is at the same time surmounted; and, in accordance with this end, the limitation of all desire and the practice of the virtues, from which pleasure is inseparable, and a withdrawn and quiet life. They had to be, right? As a result, the Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group. Epicureanism gets its name from the philosophy of Epicurus, another ancient Greek philosopher. Both philosophies aim at living a good life. was first and foremost a moral philosopher, not a natural philosopher. At the moment he is training to be a lay preacher with the Anglican Church. Christianity still has an anti-scientific streak. Though this garden can also reach the boundaries of earth, its centre is always an individual. Christianity and Epicureanism - Bible Hub Stoics in the Bible - Definition, Meaning and References There are many beliefs that are similar in both Christianity and stoicism. Epicurean vs Stoic Moral Theory - 474 Words | Studymode 21. p.75 n.2 De Praescriptione Haereticorum, c. 42. Some said, "What does this babbler want to say?" Both philosophies champion the pursuit of knowledge, though they also both stress the importance of being self-sufficient and loving oneself before others. He also is the creator of the course in the history of Christianity for Lucent University and organises apologetics conferences at his local church. In the end, its all about just trying to make the most of what life gives us and helping others as much as we can. ), and was one of the most popular schools of Hellenistic philosophy (together with Platonism and Stoicism).It was founded around 307 B.C.E., when Epicurus began to teach.He proposed that the ultimate goal of human life was happiness, and that the greatest good was to seek modest pleasures in . Mark has an interesting story to tell - he was a priest, who then left Christianity and found an alternative in Greek philosophy (particularly Plato) and depth psychology. Founded around 307 BC, the philosophy emerged originally as a challenge to Platonism. The stoics say that if we allow ourselves to react emotionally and negatively to every single situation in life, we are less likely to be successful in life. (initial capital letter) of, relating to, or characteristic of Epicurus or Epicureanism. Other conspiracies, like 9/11 being a hoax, or the Federal Reserve being owned by the Rothschilds, are disproportionately common amongst the Christian community. Maybe some Christians see their religion through the prism of fear, and therefore feel they have to obey all the rules and regulations or be damned. No judgement was passed by him, only love and forgiveness. The psychopath could argue that he adheres to another moral philosophy called violent hedonism. This is what he calls seeking the pleasure he needs from killing others and his pleasure is far more important than anyones suffering. Where, in fact, have we come from? Having decided that I did indeed like boys, and since their tones where cruel, I must be this bad thing. Epicurus himself was born in 341 BC.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'mindbydesign_io-box-4','ezslot_7',112,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-mindbydesign_io-box-4-0'); Epicureanism is stated in its founding document as a philosophy that teaches people to seek pleasure and freedom from pain. In contrast to Stoicism, Epicureanism sees the goal of life as living a pleasurable life, one filled with friends, sensual pleasures (like eating) and material comfort. Love God and your neighbour as yourself. Its key elements are an unflinching refusal to believe that spiritual entities designed, created or control the world combined with the conviction that death and irreversible decomposition into material atoms is the end for each living being. When we are stressed, we react in a negative way towards those around us. For the Epicurean to be right contra the psychopath, she would have to demonstrate that people are intrinsically valuable as a fact, something which the psychopath cannot see, but is objectively true. In contradiction to Stoicism that holds the pleasure principle responsible for reducing humans down to the level of primal sensuality, Wood argues that pleasure drives our rational thinking and communication because they are in themselves pleasurable. Stoicism vs. Epicureanism: What's the Difference? Lol. Love your children and never mistreat them. I hope I speak with some authority on this one, having been brought up in an Evangelical Christian home, attended church regularly for eighteen years, and familiarised myself with the key tenets of Christian doctrine. They have different values, but both teach us how to live a life full of meaning. The sketch below describes, first, Epicureanism and its antithetical relation to Christianity; then how, historically, Epicureanism came to form the modern outlook and even to influence Christianity itself; and finally, the contours of the moral debate between the Christian and the Epicurean today. To them, the world is perceived as hostile, and their beliefs (which are, from their point of view,) the only riight beliefs. It is true that our pre-natal non-existence never bothered us because we were not around to be bothered by it, but that non-existence was not going to go on forever; it came to an end eventually. It is therefore not judicious for him to murder. In principle, Epicuruss ethic of pleasure is the exact opposite of the Stoics ethic of duty. All Rights Reserved. I may not agree with her metaphysics, epistemology or ethics, but I can certainly appreciate the difference she made to the lives of those around her. Most religions have a lot to answer for. . Stoics [N] [S] a sect of Greek philosophers at Athens, so called from the Greek word stoa i.e., a "porch" or "portico," where they have been called "the Pharisees of Greek paganism." The founder of the Stoics was Zeno, who flourished about B.C. Making perfect the corrupted.I. Three Degrees of Wisdom: Epicureanism, Stoicism, and Neoplatonism By if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'mindbydesign_io-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_9',113,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-mindbydesign_io-large-leaderboard-2-0');The stoic is not worried about life and death but trying to make his life have more meaning, while the Epicurean is living a short and easy life. But these constructions are wobbly at best, for across the moral gap politics can throw only a rope-bridge that is likely to give way when real weight is placed on it. However, our extinction will never cease, and it is our anticipation of this that can horrify. Even in the United Kingdom, where the Church of England is relatively benign, Christianity still affirms the doctrine of blood sacrifice because it is essential to the Christian message. that pleasure is the end and aim, we do not mean the pleasures of the prodigal or the pleasures of sensuality. Fundamentalism in any political or religious discourse seems to generate division and above all, fear. Anyways, Jesus summoned those disciples who were perfectly imperfect so that he could show them the way and he still is doing this today. Like it or not, were all going to die sooner or later. Her answer to that question is that we are taught to be ambitious for wealth, power, and fame at the cost of our enjoyment and often at the cost of our health and relationships with others. They both encourage people to pursue wisdom, even though its subjective and oftentimes leaders prey on others ignorance. We should never feel constrained by the opinions and expectations of others. Because our moral disagreements break out into political battles, and because politics is the art of compromise, political truces of various sorts are worked out from time to time. Epicureanism and Christianity Norman DeWitt https://doi.org/10.3138/utq.14.3.250 Abstract PDF It has long been a fixed belief in the cultural tradition of western Europe that of the ancient moralities it is Stoicism that exhibits the closest affinity with Christianity. In popular parlance, Epicureanism thus means devotion to pleasure, comfort, and high living, with a certain nicety of style. After sensation, we interpret and distort, moving us further and further away from original reality. People today tend to think it represents ultimate, decadent . Immediately I searched to see if God said this gay thing was bad, because I trusted his goodness and maybe after all they where wrong? Adam and Eve enjoyed friendship with each other and with God, something that Wood says Epicureans value highly (1:28; 2:18-25). (Part 1), Epicureanism after Epicurus The influence of Epicurus on Western thought, Epicurus and Politics: why I think he was wrong, Things You Should Never Post Online but Probably Do, Ways to Check If Youre Visiting a Safe Website, What Teens Shouldnt Put in Their Social Media Profiles, International Soc. . Its up to each person to determine what he can control and what he cant and then to take action towards what is in his control. In fact, Epicureans believe that its better to be trapped in a cave and not know whether snow or rain is falling outside than to have knowledge of the heavens above. If people are willing to accept it, Christianity offers quantitatively and qualitatively pleasure and the absence of suffering on a scale beyond the Epicureans imagining. Epicureanism and Christianity N. W. Dewitt Published 1 July 2015 History University of Toronto Quarterly It has long been a fixed belief in the cultural tradition of western Europe that of the ancient moralities it is Stoicism that exhibits the closest affinity with Christianity. Either, God is incapable of stopping evil. Epicureanism Versus Pyrrhonism. It focused on living a happy life here and now. Im not at all surprised that American Evangelical Christians are more likely to be climate change deniers than the general population- the latter is at least somewhat related to the former in my view. Stoics believe that we have to live a stoic existence, where we are able to leave behind our troubles and focus on ourselves. Epicurus (341-271 B.C.) Christianity, on the other hand, presents humans as intrinsically valuable because humans are made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26), a maximal being who possesses maximum value. As the dead no longer exist, they cannot experience death. He called his treatises dialogismoi, or conversations. Since the utility of the doctrines lay in their application, he summarized them in stoicheia, or elementary propositions, to be memorized. Taking vacations with reliable travel companies and looking after our teeth are judicious choices for, they are a secure way of gaining pleasure and an easy way of avoiding pain. Epicureanism is a system of philosophy based upon the teachings of Epicurus, an old Greek Philosopher. Epicurus'and Darwin'sDangerous Idea | Christianity Today Such pain will end with death for the dead one, but whilst we are alive, we can think about our deaths, even though we cannot experience death on an Epicurean view, and that is this great pains source. When we let our worries and stress take over, we are not being stoic. He is unwilling to stop evil. In the face of adversity, we should not succumb to pain, fear or stress. We can treat each other as if we are intrinsically valuable, but this is exposed by the psychopath as a useful fiction. Both philosophies are thought to be good, but more importantly, they teach us how to live and be wise. Epicureanism and Stoicism compared - California State University What Do Epicureans Believe? Stoics used some of the same terminology as Christians. We do not have to accept everything that happens as it is, nor do we have to react with anger or frustration. In 306 bce, Epicurus established his school at Athens in his garden, from which it came to be known as The Garden. There are two reasons you should know Epicureanism: Epicurus left us very littleDiogenes Laertius lays out his thought (and quotes him at length) in Lives of Eminent Philosophers, and Lucretius, in On the Nature of Things, builds on Epicurus destroyed magnum opus, On Nature. Epicureans refuse to believe in gods and an afterlife. Compare also Davidson, The Stoic Creed. Its about accepting that you are, Read More Mindset vs Mindfulness: What is the differenceContinue, Understanding the difference between leadership and motivation is the key to leading and motivating your team members. The first confrontation I had on my Spiritual journey, was being faced with my own lack of goodness. So Im afraid ascribing truthfulness to a doctrine based on the good works of its adherents is a rudimentary fallacy because virtually every doctrine can claim to have had good effects. Memphis Tennessee Fedex Delay, Reattached John Wayne Bobbitt Post Surgery Photos, Articles E
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epicureanism vs christianity

Both philosophies agree that we should do this in order to live a better life. My only hope was to believe in Jesus and follow whatever the Bible says, or else be guilty of disobeying God. Christian Approval of Epicureanism - Volume 31 Issue 3. What else does Wood find attractive in Epicureanism? But be prepared for blowback from the rest of us. All of our actions are a reaction to something or someone. New Oxford Review. 20. p.75 n.1 A clear statement of the points of resemblance and of contrast in the teaching of Stoicism and Christianity may be found in Fisher, The Grounds of Theistic and Christian Belief, pp. The stoics were able to live contented and happy lives despite the fact that they were living in a world of hardship and torture. I fully agree with what you say. Epicurus (c. 341-271 BC) was a Greek philosopher who believed that our ultimate truths come from what we experience, not what we think. Lastly, why does He help? Christianity and Ancient Greek philosophy - Wikipedia IV. We can turn our worries and fears into a source of motivation that helps us to become better people in this world. other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection. Death is an interruption of love which is regarded as the greatest pleasure and the thought of losing it either by dying ourselves or through the death of others is a horrendous pain. How to Balance Hard Work and Pleasure for Happiness - The Atlantic (social) scientist myself, I despair at climate change denial, and the literal interpretation of Genesis. You will inevitably be crushed when that person leaves or falls out of your life. Epicureanism: the ancient philosophy that won't go away On a metaphysical level, Epicureanism and Christianity fundamentally contravene each other. Epicurean pleasure - Changing minds Updates? molar enthalpy of combustion of methanol. Nevertheless, Christianity is no less concerned with this present lifes quality. The stoics stress upon us to remember that we are living a life of our own design and that we should be happy with this fact. In the New Testament book of Revelation, the New Jerusalem is described as a place where God will wipe away every tear from his peoples eyes and there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying and there shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away (21:4; NKJV). We should remember that those things are not part of the inner self and do not define us as human beings. Every day we can choose to be an Epicurean or a Stoic, taking what we find useful from both philosophies. As a philosophical school, one of the main goals of Stoicism was to attain freedom from passion and fear. In ancient polemics, as often since, the term was employed with an even more generic (and clearly erroneous) meaning as the equivalent of hedonism, the doctrine that pleasure or happiness is the chief good. In ethics, the basic concepts are the identification of good with pleasure and of the supreme good and ultimate end with the absence of pain from the body and the soula limit beyond which pleasure does not grow but changes; the reduction of every human relation to the principle of utility, which finds its highest expression in friendship, in which it is at the same time surmounted; and, in accordance with this end, the limitation of all desire and the practice of the virtues, from which pleasure is inseparable, and a withdrawn and quiet life. They had to be, right? As a result, the Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group. Epicureanism gets its name from the philosophy of Epicurus, another ancient Greek philosopher. Both philosophies aim at living a good life. was first and foremost a moral philosopher, not a natural philosopher. At the moment he is training to be a lay preacher with the Anglican Church. Christianity still has an anti-scientific streak. Though this garden can also reach the boundaries of earth, its centre is always an individual. Christianity and Epicureanism - Bible Hub Stoics in the Bible - Definition, Meaning and References There are many beliefs that are similar in both Christianity and stoicism. Epicurean vs Stoic Moral Theory - 474 Words | Studymode 21. p.75 n.2 De Praescriptione Haereticorum, c. 42. Some said, "What does this babbler want to say?" Both philosophies champion the pursuit of knowledge, though they also both stress the importance of being self-sufficient and loving oneself before others. He also is the creator of the course in the history of Christianity for Lucent University and organises apologetics conferences at his local church. In the end, its all about just trying to make the most of what life gives us and helping others as much as we can. ), and was one of the most popular schools of Hellenistic philosophy (together with Platonism and Stoicism).It was founded around 307 B.C.E., when Epicurus began to teach.He proposed that the ultimate goal of human life was happiness, and that the greatest good was to seek modest pleasures in . Mark has an interesting story to tell - he was a priest, who then left Christianity and found an alternative in Greek philosophy (particularly Plato) and depth psychology. Founded around 307 BC, the philosophy emerged originally as a challenge to Platonism. The stoics say that if we allow ourselves to react emotionally and negatively to every single situation in life, we are less likely to be successful in life. (initial capital letter) of, relating to, or characteristic of Epicurus or Epicureanism. Other conspiracies, like 9/11 being a hoax, or the Federal Reserve being owned by the Rothschilds, are disproportionately common amongst the Christian community. Maybe some Christians see their religion through the prism of fear, and therefore feel they have to obey all the rules and regulations or be damned. No judgement was passed by him, only love and forgiveness. The psychopath could argue that he adheres to another moral philosophy called violent hedonism. This is what he calls seeking the pleasure he needs from killing others and his pleasure is far more important than anyones suffering. Where, in fact, have we come from? Having decided that I did indeed like boys, and since their tones where cruel, I must be this bad thing. Epicurus himself was born in 341 BC.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'mindbydesign_io-box-4','ezslot_7',112,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-mindbydesign_io-box-4-0'); Epicureanism is stated in its founding document as a philosophy that teaches people to seek pleasure and freedom from pain. In contrast to Stoicism, Epicureanism sees the goal of life as living a pleasurable life, one filled with friends, sensual pleasures (like eating) and material comfort. Love God and your neighbour as yourself. Its key elements are an unflinching refusal to believe that spiritual entities designed, created or control the world combined with the conviction that death and irreversible decomposition into material atoms is the end for each living being. When we are stressed, we react in a negative way towards those around us. For the Epicurean to be right contra the psychopath, she would have to demonstrate that people are intrinsically valuable as a fact, something which the psychopath cannot see, but is objectively true. In contradiction to Stoicism that holds the pleasure principle responsible for reducing humans down to the level of primal sensuality, Wood argues that pleasure drives our rational thinking and communication because they are in themselves pleasurable. Stoicism vs. Epicureanism: What's the Difference? Lol. Love your children and never mistreat them. I hope I speak with some authority on this one, having been brought up in an Evangelical Christian home, attended church regularly for eighteen years, and familiarised myself with the key tenets of Christian doctrine. They have different values, but both teach us how to live a life full of meaning. The sketch below describes, first, Epicureanism and its antithetical relation to Christianity; then how, historically, Epicureanism came to form the modern outlook and even to influence Christianity itself; and finally, the contours of the moral debate between the Christian and the Epicurean today. To them, the world is perceived as hostile, and their beliefs (which are, from their point of view,) the only riight beliefs. It is true that our pre-natal non-existence never bothered us because we were not around to be bothered by it, but that non-existence was not going to go on forever; it came to an end eventually. It is therefore not judicious for him to murder. In principle, Epicuruss ethic of pleasure is the exact opposite of the Stoics ethic of duty. All Rights Reserved. I may not agree with her metaphysics, epistemology or ethics, but I can certainly appreciate the difference she made to the lives of those around her. Most religions have a lot to answer for. . Stoics [N] [S] a sect of Greek philosophers at Athens, so called from the Greek word stoa i.e., a "porch" or "portico," where they have been called "the Pharisees of Greek paganism." The founder of the Stoics was Zeno, who flourished about B.C. Making perfect the corrupted.I. Three Degrees of Wisdom: Epicureanism, Stoicism, and Neoplatonism By if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'mindbydesign_io-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_9',113,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-mindbydesign_io-large-leaderboard-2-0');The stoic is not worried about life and death but trying to make his life have more meaning, while the Epicurean is living a short and easy life. But these constructions are wobbly at best, for across the moral gap politics can throw only a rope-bridge that is likely to give way when real weight is placed on it. However, our extinction will never cease, and it is our anticipation of this that can horrify. Even in the United Kingdom, where the Church of England is relatively benign, Christianity still affirms the doctrine of blood sacrifice because it is essential to the Christian message. that pleasure is the end and aim, we do not mean the pleasures of the prodigal or the pleasures of sensuality. Fundamentalism in any political or religious discourse seems to generate division and above all, fear. Anyways, Jesus summoned those disciples who were perfectly imperfect so that he could show them the way and he still is doing this today. Like it or not, were all going to die sooner or later. Her answer to that question is that we are taught to be ambitious for wealth, power, and fame at the cost of our enjoyment and often at the cost of our health and relationships with others. They both encourage people to pursue wisdom, even though its subjective and oftentimes leaders prey on others ignorance. We should never feel constrained by the opinions and expectations of others. Because our moral disagreements break out into political battles, and because politics is the art of compromise, political truces of various sorts are worked out from time to time. Epicureanism and Christianity Norman DeWitt https://doi.org/10.3138/utq.14.3.250 Abstract PDF It has long been a fixed belief in the cultural tradition of western Europe that of the ancient moralities it is Stoicism that exhibits the closest affinity with Christianity. In popular parlance, Epicureanism thus means devotion to pleasure, comfort, and high living, with a certain nicety of style. After sensation, we interpret and distort, moving us further and further away from original reality. People today tend to think it represents ultimate, decadent . Immediately I searched to see if God said this gay thing was bad, because I trusted his goodness and maybe after all they where wrong? Adam and Eve enjoyed friendship with each other and with God, something that Wood says Epicureans value highly (1:28; 2:18-25). (Part 1), Epicureanism after Epicurus The influence of Epicurus on Western thought, Epicurus and Politics: why I think he was wrong, Things You Should Never Post Online but Probably Do, Ways to Check If Youre Visiting a Safe Website, What Teens Shouldnt Put in Their Social Media Profiles, International Soc. . Its up to each person to determine what he can control and what he cant and then to take action towards what is in his control. In fact, Epicureans believe that its better to be trapped in a cave and not know whether snow or rain is falling outside than to have knowledge of the heavens above. If people are willing to accept it, Christianity offers quantitatively and qualitatively pleasure and the absence of suffering on a scale beyond the Epicureans imagining. Epicureanism and Christianity N. W. Dewitt Published 1 July 2015 History University of Toronto Quarterly It has long been a fixed belief in the cultural tradition of western Europe that of the ancient moralities it is Stoicism that exhibits the closest affinity with Christianity. Either, God is incapable of stopping evil. Epicureanism Versus Pyrrhonism. It focused on living a happy life here and now. Im not at all surprised that American Evangelical Christians are more likely to be climate change deniers than the general population- the latter is at least somewhat related to the former in my view. Stoics believe that we have to live a stoic existence, where we are able to leave behind our troubles and focus on ourselves. Epicurus (341-271 B.C.) Christianity, on the other hand, presents humans as intrinsically valuable because humans are made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26), a maximal being who possesses maximum value. As the dead no longer exist, they cannot experience death. He called his treatises dialogismoi, or conversations. Since the utility of the doctrines lay in their application, he summarized them in stoicheia, or elementary propositions, to be memorized. Taking vacations with reliable travel companies and looking after our teeth are judicious choices for, they are a secure way of gaining pleasure and an easy way of avoiding pain. Epicureanism is a system of philosophy based upon the teachings of Epicurus, an old Greek Philosopher. Epicurus'and Darwin'sDangerous Idea | Christianity Today Such pain will end with death for the dead one, but whilst we are alive, we can think about our deaths, even though we cannot experience death on an Epicurean view, and that is this great pains source. When we let our worries and stress take over, we are not being stoic. He is unwilling to stop evil. In the face of adversity, we should not succumb to pain, fear or stress. We can treat each other as if we are intrinsically valuable, but this is exposed by the psychopath as a useful fiction. Both philosophies are thought to be good, but more importantly, they teach us how to live and be wise. Epicureanism and Stoicism compared - California State University What Do Epicureans Believe? Stoics used some of the same terminology as Christians. We do not have to accept everything that happens as it is, nor do we have to react with anger or frustration. In 306 bce, Epicurus established his school at Athens in his garden, from which it came to be known as The Garden. There are two reasons you should know Epicureanism: Epicurus left us very littleDiogenes Laertius lays out his thought (and quotes him at length) in Lives of Eminent Philosophers, and Lucretius, in On the Nature of Things, builds on Epicurus destroyed magnum opus, On Nature. Epicureans refuse to believe in gods and an afterlife. Compare also Davidson, The Stoic Creed. Its about accepting that you are, Read More Mindset vs Mindfulness: What is the differenceContinue, Understanding the difference between leadership and motivation is the key to leading and motivating your team members. The first confrontation I had on my Spiritual journey, was being faced with my own lack of goodness. So Im afraid ascribing truthfulness to a doctrine based on the good works of its adherents is a rudimentary fallacy because virtually every doctrine can claim to have had good effects.

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