This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308, https://www.surplusammo.com/categori-308-mags.html, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to Thank you for that information, I really needed to know that. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. Our Team Said: The CMMG Mk4T showed extremely good balance. This gun was designed from the ground up to be as discrete as possible while retaining all the capabilities of the MCX. With the shooter lined up on the center target, the object was to land as many hits as possible into the central A-zone of each paper target within a fixed 10-second time limit. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. Nice Sig collection BET7, And I also play the field , I really like my Black Rain Ordnance 5.56 , I would like to add a couple more Black Rains to my collection . Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . Privacy Policy. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. I'm curious what kind of accuracy you are going to see out of that thing. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. This eliminates the crack that coincides with the bullet leaving the muzzle caused by the projectile breaking the sound barrier. Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. (Notice they fixed this on the new Edge pistol with a longer barrel.) Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. To change the shooters perspective and in effect reduce target area, we staggered the targets. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). Thanks Bio. Maybe they will give me some clarity. The AR pistol is a platform of many uses. One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. This is a 100-yard rifle. Ah, the AR-pistol. Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16" I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. Unless otherwise noted, these reviews carry the guns prices at the time of the original review. Shooting the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max 223 ammunition, we were rewarded with five-shot groups that measured an average of just 0.6 inch across. Can't wait to find the price on this and see one in person . And yet, accuracy from the bench was on par with our other test carbines. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. For targeting, I installed a set of Daniel Defenses fixed sights, as well as a Sig Sauer ROMEO3 reflex sight in a tall mount for co-witnessing. Also visible with the top end hinged away was the Accu-Tite tension system consisting of a synthetic non-marring screw that mated flush beneath the bottom of the connecting lug. Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. But thats not really new, either. Just Got this in my e-mail . This video does make me feel better about Springfield. Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. To keep my support hand from creeping up on the muzzle, I added an M-LOK-compatible Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) from Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) to the forend. Springfield Armory SAINT Victor AR-15s; WATCH: SIG Sauer M400 . To the average shooter the price tag doesnt quite reflect it, but the Protector is top-shelf Wilson Combats entry-level 300 Blackout pistol option. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Indoors, every load produced visible flash, but premium ammo gave me a small, manageable flash. To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. For more information, please see our I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. Thus, stabilizing subsonic ammo not an issue. Combine the heft with a quality suppressor and the Blackouts recoil is negated to next to nothing, giving the pistol excellent follow-up shot accuracy. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. I got my hands on the SBR variant, which features a skeletonized stock that folds flat against the left side of the receiver without obstructing the controls. The barrel is only 5.5 inches longsomething unthinkable with a direct-impingement AR. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. The M400 tread is sort of a gimmicky rifle from Sig. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. Minuteman. To install (or remove for cleaning), you have to pop out both pins on the lower receiver and then slide the upper receiver back and forth. Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. I would really like to hear from you guys who have had access and range time with these MSR's. The first was the SilencerCo Omega 9K, which is only 4.7 inches long and weighs 7.2 ounces. Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. Chris Johnson, FN Senior Product Manager, walks us through two new FN striker-fired pistols at SHOT Show 2023: the FN 510 Tactical, chambered in 10mm Auto, and the FN 545 Tactical, chambered in .45 ACP. Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023), 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. Because I knew the velocity would be lacking, most of my chronographing was done with 5.56 NATO ammo, which runs a bit hotter. We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. SIG Sauer Introduces the New SIG Tread Snakebite SE. Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. Springfield Armorys $899 Saint, the manufacturers first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. .224 Valkyrie Small Precision Rifle Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know, Buyer Beware: Buying 'Bargain' Guns Can Be Risky. This five-position brace was specifically designed for PDW-sized guns and only hangs 4 inches off the back of the receiver when fully collapsed. The bottom of the grip was removable, and there were fittings to hold popular batteries such as the CR123 or AA inside. As far as stabilization, it features the fairly standard SB Tactical SBA3 brace. Comfortable to hold, the handguard offered the most versatility of our three rifles. A free-float handguard would likely make this the perfect carbine. About every 20 to 25 shots, the trigger would pull straight through. Wow just read the article on TTAG. A PDW is not a rifle. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. Probably, but not at 900 fps. I would go with the sig. Boasting nice crisp break, the trigger also has a short reset allowing the gun to run fast. So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. Fitting right into this slot is the Saint Victor 300 Blackout Pistol. This rifle also features a free float M-LOK handguard, ambidextrous controls and a rotating bolt system. Caliber + 300 BLK; 5.56 NATO; 7.62x39 . Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. While the plastic handguard and the buttstock showed a little bit of play, fit and function of the more important parts of the M400 Classic were exceptional. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. Outdoors, only the Winchester FMJ produced enough flash to be visible to me when shooting. I was able to get 10 hits out of 10 on the top portion of an IPSC silhouette at 100 yards with the Lehigh Defense load and Barnes subsonicswell within the designs parameters. Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. Caliber: 300 AAC Blackout-MSRP: 1015. It's a little longer but CZ Bren 2 MS pistol can be had in 5.56 or 7.62x39 with a couple added inches of barrel than the Sig Rattler. Life has a melody. Eventually, ammo manufacturers answered the call, and now dozens offer 300 Blackout loads for a variety of uses. Can the SIG MCX Rattler do it? The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. We really liked the handguard. Instead, its plenty accurate for its intended purpose. Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. We set up a three-target array with just 10 feet between each target. While chambered in 5.56 NATO, the Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW has but a 5.5-inch barrel. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . Coming in at 5.1 pounds empty, sporting a 5.5-inch barrel and folded length of 17 inches, the MCX Rattler is definitely compact enough to be carried anywhere. In late 2019, Springfield released the SAINT Pistol, featuring upgraded components and a retail price of just $849. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). Units specializing in covert, ship-borne or hostage-rescue operations still wanted PDWs with more powerrifle-caliber power to be exact. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. Camp Guns: Sometimes Perfect, Other Times Not But Often Essential! By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. It's basically a bcm with the Saint logo on it. I have not shot the Tread, I have handled and inspected it though. What is it? I said you really loved shooting the orange . MCX-SPEAR . On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . The gas block is pinned in place. SAAMI Accepts 30 Super Carry As New Standardized Cartridge, SHOT 2022: Federal Premium Announces 30 Super Carry Cartridge. You got the CZ shadow 2 orange is it 9mm or 40 cal. But the safety and the magazine release were ambidextrous. Operating the trigger in a controlled press, the trigger seemed to find two stopping points before finally breaking a shot. I run the SIG SRD762TI on my Rattler. No, but it was never designed to be. The upper, including the mix of Picatinnny and Keymod rail, was more modern than the lower, which offered more traditional components, such as the plastic grip with single finger groove and the buttstock that was sans any padding. Will it perform at greater distances? The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. I Have the 1st Sig's M400 Tread and it's a nice gun , It shoots great and built very good . The Springfield Saint AR-15 is a great entry-level AR-15 that is easy to use and customize. Furthermore, Sig has a much higher percentage of parts and weapons produced in house, which allows them to control quality much more closely, where as Springfield assembles and builds only a fraction of their product line, AFAIK. a little more then I've ever spent on a gun .So I called it a holy grail gun , which I had many other guns in front of that one . But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. SAINT VICTOR PIST 300BLK 30+1. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. I had several concerns due to its comically short barrel, its accuracy, reliability and velocity. But like you, I also bought the SA Saint Victor 300 BLK pistol, which is very well made. The handguard does not have a rail on the top except for a very short section near the muzzle. Thats as short as ARs get. 300 AAC Blackout. Both suppressors were more effective than, say, a flash suppressor or muzzle brake, but dont expect the gun to be as quiet as those shown in the movies. View Product. What more can you ask for? Sig's new SnakeBite . To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. Please give me your thoughts and opinions! It has a cone-within-a-cup two-piece design reminiscent of the Noveske KX3. The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. But there are a few key reasons why the .30-caliber is better suited for compact ARs. But if you want range, get a longer-barreled rifle with a slower twist rate to optimize 125-grain loads. As for Springfields PDW, it is an AR, so it has familiar controls. (Tie) B&T .45 2. Short and sweet, the 5.5-inch barreled MCX Rattler is as compact as 300 Blackout pistols come. Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. The SIG Rattler is something special. The heavier 120- to 125-grain loads performed similarly. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. Of course, given the Rattlers short barrel, some gel testing was in order. I bought a Tread on a whim. I assumed shooting this gun would be like holding a concussion grenade in my teeth, but I was pleasantly surprised thanks to the Hate Brake. The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. I got it for around 900 dollars a little over a year ago. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. Its perfect for indoor situations where 25 yards is a long shot and overpenetration is a concern. I'm selling my XD and definitely going with the MCX. Thanks to the precise trigger, the shooter always felt he was in complete control. Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. With most loads, a 9-inch barrel is enough bore for a complete powder burn. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. The other rifles did not suffer this complaint. The trigger is Springfields flat trigger, first introduced on the Saint Victor line. Now, we all know stripped down versions just aren't going to cut it, so after adding a Trijicon MRO, SIG SRD 762 QD can, a Magpul vertical grip, a Parker Mountain Machines BCD, and don't forget a fully-loaded magazine of 220 grain subsonic rounds, we have ourselves a stout 9.4 pound setup. then they had the new CZ 75 Tactical Sport 2 Blue in $1,699 . April 23, 2020 By Sean Utley While there are many good suppressors available, in my experience there are a few notable brands and models which, from a durability/longevity standpoint, I would consider first when looking to purchase a suppressor. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. I'm having a hard time deciding on which one of these to purchase. Whereas releasing the bolt is aided by the larger platform, setting the lock means pressing down on the smaller end. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. Every MCX also comes with an ambidextrous safety selector and magazine release for righties and lefties. Anything under 10.5" and not only do you run the risk of a strike but you are also going to get a ton of unburnt powder trashing the inside of the can. It's perfect for sporting or home defense with high reliability and some furniture and trigger upgrades that set it apart from other budget AR-15s. The BCM Gunfighter grip provided a steeper angle than the others, including the Magpul grip found on the M400. My wife said I'm going to buy me a new gun which one do you think the Blue or Orange . The Sig Enhanced is heavy and not as responsive as youd expect in a gun of this class, somewhat akin to a mil-spec job. That said, neither of the suppressors was really quiet. Interestingly, Sig is one of the gunmakers that subscribe to faster-than-usual twist rates for 300 Blackout1:5. The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. I found myself hooking my index finger around the front of it while shooting as opposed to actually using it as a hand stop. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. JavaScript is disabled. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . I got the email also Bio. I love my Evo .. You must log in or register to reply here. Love my M400 Tread and if I was in the market for another AR Rifle, i'd absolutely consider it. Compare. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM rounds were next best, showing an average five-shot group measuring about 0.9 inch. Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. In measuring trigger-pull weight, we arrived at an average of about 7.2 pounds. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. I'm a sucker for. Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! They are more compact and lighter than ever, Making it the ideal weapon for Rapid deployment and close quarter work. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . Provided for advice, just in case you talk yourself into buying one. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. And when the special operations community began searching for a new 300 Blackout PDW, Sig Sauer provided a solution with the SIG MCX Rattler. With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. The companys thinking must be a suppressor is going on there anyway, so cut costs with the standard muzzle device. The selector switch is bilateral and works just fine. It has a pretty decent barrel and is reliable, so I can recommend it as a solid choice. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics.

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